This question has been annoying for a while, so thought I would create a thread.
Why don't pros go 1 ancient of lore 1 ancient of wind vs orc instead of the 'standard' 2 ancient of wind? For the sake of simplifying discussion, let's assume orc is playing standard as opposed to proto or something.
Now I'm sure some people will claim 'it's too expensive' or 'you die to some early timing' or 'orc will just mass expand and you can't put on pressure due to high investment' or something. But please allow me to explain a way one can go 1 ancient of lore & 1 ancient of wind vs orc which doesn't really have these disadvantages and perhaps has some advantages.
So basically you do a standard opener with ~10 lumber wisps before teching to tier 2 (although you can also do a huntress opener, which may be desirable on some maps like twisted meadows) and then when t2 finishes get beastmaster & 1 ancient of lore, start t3, then get ancient of wind. Have ancient of lore build 1 dryad then 1 bear then bear adept training and have the ancient of wind build 2 druids of the talon then adept training. You can then go for a strong 50 food timing push with dh, beastmaster, tinker (or panda vs proto), archer/huntress that you made in the early game, 1 dryad, 1 druid of the claw, 2 druids of the talon
Let me point out a few aspects of this matchup:
- You need cyclone vs blade master, but you don't need it right away. If you've tried bear-dryad vs orc, it's okay until blade master reaches level 4/5, then things get out of control. But when you initially reach 50 food, blademaster is only 2/3, so you can do engagements without cyclone, so delaying cyclone and only doing 1 ancient of wind isn't a big deal.
- Having 1 dryad allows you to slow enemy units down, focus fire and kill them much more easily than without a dryad; it is also very useful if the opponent is running away or trying to base-race you. Sure you can get a similar effect with a pure dot army by cycloning a unit and surrounding it, but that takes more time and the 1 dryad comes a lot earlier.
- If you have 1 druid of the claw with roar, your whole army gets +25% dps (except the dryad), which makes for a very strong timing push and makes your army composition quite a bit stronger later in the game.
- Orc often doesn't know which second hero to pick. Generally orc wants TC vs druid of the claw play and shadow hunter vs ancients of lore. In this case, the orc may go shadow hunter 2nd after scouting hunter's hall and then not have TC later on to deal with dots.
- You get access to rejuvinations, which can save money on potions of healing or moonstones that you would have otherwise bought, and it can allow you to creep more aggressively.
- It sets you up for a really strong 70 food timing push where you add 2 druids of the claw, 3 dots/faerie dragons & 3 archers + improved bows (or you could make a 2nd ancient of wind and have 3 more dots instead of the 3 archers). Kodo beasts are an issue vs bears, but if you have 1 dryad + 3 roared archers you can slow and focus fire the unarmored & faerie fired kodo beast while your bear just moves away and the enemy blademaster is in the air unable to kill the archers.
- Dots have diminishing returns. They are good vs heavy armored units, for cycloning blade master and for spreading faerie fire, but their dps is less vs other armor types if you mass cyclone, AOE dispell will make your mana use cost ineffective. Where as if you have a more mixed composition, you can make the correct units attack the correct armor types (dots attack grunts / spirit walkers, bears attack medium armor raiders, archer/dryad attack unarmored kodos) thereby increasing your army's effective dps.
- Lastly, with a more mixed composition, your army is less vulnerable to shockwave since dryads and spell immune and bears have a zillion hp. So your army is less reliant on healing scrolls and doesn't autolose if the enemy tc gets to level 5.
Why don't pros go 1 ancient of lore 1 ancient of wind vs orc instead of the 'standard' 2 ancient of wind? For the sake of simplifying discussion, let's assume orc is playing standard as opposed to proto or something.
Now I'm sure some people will claim 'it's too expensive' or 'you die to some early timing' or 'orc will just mass expand and you can't put on pressure due to high investment' or something. But please allow me to explain a way one can go 1 ancient of lore & 1 ancient of wind vs orc which doesn't really have these disadvantages and perhaps has some advantages.
So basically you do a standard opener with ~10 lumber wisps before teching to tier 2 (although you can also do a huntress opener, which may be desirable on some maps like twisted meadows) and then when t2 finishes get beastmaster & 1 ancient of lore, start t3, then get ancient of wind. Have ancient of lore build 1 dryad then 1 bear then bear adept training and have the ancient of wind build 2 druids of the talon then adept training. You can then go for a strong 50 food timing push with dh, beastmaster, tinker (or panda vs proto), archer/huntress that you made in the early game, 1 dryad, 1 druid of the claw, 2 druids of the talon
Let me point out a few aspects of this matchup:
- You need cyclone vs blade master, but you don't need it right away. If you've tried bear-dryad vs orc, it's okay until blade master reaches level 4/5, then things get out of control. But when you initially reach 50 food, blademaster is only 2/3, so you can do engagements without cyclone, so delaying cyclone and only doing 1 ancient of wind isn't a big deal.
- Having 1 dryad allows you to slow enemy units down, focus fire and kill them much more easily than without a dryad; it is also very useful if the opponent is running away or trying to base-race you. Sure you can get a similar effect with a pure dot army by cycloning a unit and surrounding it, but that takes more time and the 1 dryad comes a lot earlier.
- If you have 1 druid of the claw with roar, your whole army gets +25% dps (except the dryad), which makes for a very strong timing push and makes your army composition quite a bit stronger later in the game.
- Orc often doesn't know which second hero to pick. Generally orc wants TC vs druid of the claw play and shadow hunter vs ancients of lore. In this case, the orc may go shadow hunter 2nd after scouting hunter's hall and then not have TC later on to deal with dots.
- You get access to rejuvinations, which can save money on potions of healing or moonstones that you would have otherwise bought, and it can allow you to creep more aggressively.
- It sets you up for a really strong 70 food timing push where you add 2 druids of the claw, 3 dots/faerie dragons & 3 archers + improved bows (or you could make a 2nd ancient of wind and have 3 more dots instead of the 3 archers). Kodo beasts are an issue vs bears, but if you have 1 dryad + 3 roared archers you can slow and focus fire the unarmored & faerie fired kodo beast while your bear just moves away and the enemy blademaster is in the air unable to kill the archers.
- Dots have diminishing returns. They are good vs heavy armored units, for cycloning blade master and for spreading faerie fire, but their dps is less vs other armor types if you mass cyclone, AOE dispell will make your mana use cost ineffective. Where as if you have a more mixed composition, you can make the correct units attack the correct armor types (dots attack grunts / spirit walkers, bears attack medium armor raiders, archer/dryad attack unarmored kodos) thereby increasing your army's effective dps.
- Lastly, with a more mixed composition, your army is less vulnerable to shockwave since dryads and spell immune and bears have a zillion hp. So your army is less reliant on healing scrolls and doesn't autolose if the enemy tc gets to level 5.